Curse

Shinsei · Sep 23, 2005, 02:13 PM // 14:13

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Originally Posted by Dzan

A class of characters is using their skills as intended! Stop the presses!

That's exactly what's not happening here. Read the thread before you post. It's been stated countless times over again, so have the arguments that are irrelevant, which your post happens to classify under.

User Name · Sep 23, 2005, 02:14 PM // 14:14

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Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

Arguments which have been proven to be irrelevant:
- This build can be countered

How has that been proven? and please don't tell me the lame ass argument people on this board use...i.e. "if I have win-game skill and you have anti-win-game skill to counter does that mean win-game is balanced?"...because it's serisouly the worst argument in the history of arguments. It doesn't even make sense....AND if you think about it....yes it IS balanced. You have a skill that takes the game to one extreme and your opponent has a skill that takes the game to the opposite end of the extreme spectrum...

I don't think anyone has proven that any arguments are irrelavant. "Don't nerf my ranger" and "Rangers are already weak" aren't even valid arguments. So they can't logically be irrelavant. An argument must first be valid before it can be irrelavant.

Akathrielah · Sep 23, 2005, 02:20 PM // 14:20

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Originally Posted by Dzan

They don't bring just rangers, the team is 3 rangers and a monk.

But anyway, this is a joke. Next thing you clowns are going to call for is nerfing Penetrating Blow and Executioner's strike because they are so good when done in an eviscerate chain with Frenzy on. Oh No! A class of characters is using their skills as intended! Stop the presses!

Those skills are supposed to do damage.

Savage Shot, Punishing Shot and Distracting Shot are interrupts. Do you people understand the functions and purpose of interrupts? Do you people understand that this build with Kindle/Conjure (and add in OoV and OoP just to be an ass) outdamages nearly everything else AND it interrupts at the same time in a under a second?

Just to give an example that everyone should be able to grasp, this is as if eviserate and executioner's strike interrupted a target in addition to the damage (and condition for eviserate) they inflict.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Username

How has that been proven? and please don't tell me the lame ass argument people on this board use...i.e. "if I have win-game skill and you have anti-win-game skill to counter does that mean win-game is balanced?"...because it's serisouly the worst argument in the history of arguments. It doesn't even make sense....AND if you think about it....yes it IS balanced. You have a skill that takes the game to one extreme and your opponent has a skill that takes the game to the opposite end of the extreme spectrum...

This statement removes any credibility you had or would have had. Give me a bloody break.

john little · Sep 23, 2005, 02:21 PM // 14:21

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Originally Posted by Man With No Name

Increasing the recharge times across all interupts doesn't seem viable ( we can't get to the point where interupts take longer to charge than spells :P )

why not? most enchantment removal takes longer to recharge than most enchantment spells.

I don't think the ability of a ranger to interrupt should be spammable - interrupts should be about trying to stop the most powerful/effective attacks, not about shutting someone down.

RTSFirebat · Sep 23, 2005, 02:22 PM // 14:22

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Originally Posted by Akathrielah

PvP 1st, PvE 2nd

Lets not turn this into that kind of discussion the devs have stated time and time again this is a 50/50 game.

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Just look at how the skills and the game itself was balanced right out of the box, hell just look at the BWEs. This clearly is a PvP oriented game.

No it isn't see the above, PvP is a massive part of the game however.

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Besides I've yet to see a Ranger bring interrupts in PvE.

I always bring at least one skill, you clearly partying up with stupid PUG rangers who don't think

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A smart rebalance would merely tone the damage down on the interrupts, thats about it. This way Rangers wouldn't be able to do ~200 damage in about a second or less AND be interrupting to boot.

So can a IWAY warrior using an axe, seen one take me down in the same as I can using a rapid fire build. So why not nerf them as well?

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As a side not if you think Rangers are underpowered you seriously have been playing another game.

No one said we underpowered, but everyone seems to feel the need to rag on ANY ranger build that has merit. It hard for rangers to get in HoH parties as it is, why take more alway from us. If they change it, I'd quit PvP for good, that the way I feel about it.

Akathrielah · Sep 23, 2005, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

So can a IWAY warrior using an axe, seen one take me down in the same as I can using a rapid fire build. So why not nerf them as well?

IWAY has plenty of problems, and their skills don't interrupt while they are dealing damage, if it was, then the skills in question would need rebalancing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

No one said we underpowered, but everyone seems to feel the need to rag on ANY ranger build that has merit. It hard for rangers to get in HoH parties as it is, why take more alway from us. If they change it, I'd quit PvP for good, that the way I feel about it.

There has been only one build that needed a nerf and that was the spirit build, show me these other builds that rangers had that was nerfed to merit that "...to rag on ANY ranger build that has merit". And its hard for many classes to get in HoH PuGs, thats why you steer clear of them, they usually aren't any good anyway. Play with your guildies and friends, if that isn't possible then go make some.

FrogDevourer · Sep 23, 2005, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by User Name

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

Arguments which have been proven to be irrelevant:
- This build can be countered

How has that been proven? and please don't tell me the lame ass argument people on this board use...i.e. "if I have win-game skill and you have anti-win-game skill to counter does that mean win-game is balanced?"...because it's serisouly the worst argument in the history of arguments.

Sigh... You're serious, right? Sure you're not just trolling smartly? Alright, I give up. You win. If you haven't been able to understand the Leech Signet argument, there is no point in trying to open your eyes.

moonshadow · Sep 23, 2005, 02:30 PM // 14:30

I don't necessarily think they should be nerfed, but I think it would be nice to have a bigger selection of counters. I know 3 are mentioned here, but I'm just saying it would be nice to have a little more of an option on how to deal with it.

User Name · Sep 23, 2005, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

Sigh... You're serious, right? Sure you're not just trolling smartly? Alright, I give up. You win. If you haven't been able to understand the Leech Signet argument, there is no point in trying to open your eyes.

I understand that argument perfectly...it's just a stupid argument. It doesn't make sense, you just THINK it does. Making up hypothetical skills that are so obviously unbalanced it's painful doesn't help to clarify why any specific skill itself is unbalanced. It's just a nice way of getting people to join your side....as it's quite obvious that "Leech Signet" is unbalanced. That argument prays on the weak minded who will associate "Leech Signet" with whatever skill is currently being discussed.

The post I quoted was an obvious iQ ballwashing that discouraged anyone to attempt to argue against them...Shinsei is right(in my opinion)...however discouraging people to post an argument by making it painfully apparent that you're just going to add their argument to a list of "irrelavant arguments" isn't exactly a great way to moderate a forum.

KallDrexx · Sep 23, 2005, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Can someone PLEASE explain why interrupts should 1) be spammable and 2) do more damage then regular ranger builds. PLEASE

Tactical-Dillusions · Sep 23, 2005, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Wouldn't it be more mature and intelligent to provide ideas for new skills which could not only widen the range of everyones spectrum, but possibly provide a solution to this "alleged" imbalance?

Why is it always one side of the coin folks? Broaden your horizons.

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Originally Posted by KallDrexx

Can someone PLEASE explain why interrupts should 1) be spammable and 2) do more damage then regular ranger builds. PLEASE

Punishing shot is elite, rangers have preparations, rangers interrupt capabilities are one of it's primary attributes.
Good players who know how to use rangers can deal damage and interrupt at the same time.

KallDrexx, please define a "regular ranger build", i'm interested to know.

KallDrexx · Sep 23, 2005, 02:43 PM // 14:43

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Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions

Wouldn't it be more mature and intelligent to provide ideas for new skills which could not only widen the range of everyones spectrum, but possibly provide a solution to this "alleged" imbalance?

Why is it always one side of the coin folks? Broaden your horizons.

Because the real idea here is that Interrupt rangers do more damage then regular rangers and therefore it's a single class balance issue. Interrupts shouldn't do as much damage as damage rangers because the interrupt capabiltiy should have a downside to it, not doing enough damage. You can't boost non-interrupt skills cause that could make rangers too overpowered.

Shinsei · Sep 23, 2005, 02:46 PM // 14:46

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Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions

KallDrexx, please define a "regular ranger build", i'm interested to know.

Any ranger build that relies on +dmg shots with normal attack speeds.

Tactical-Dillusions · Sep 23, 2005, 02:51 PM // 14:51

So where does ArenaNet state that the +dmg with interrupt capabilities isn't what they intended upon design of the ranger class?

I thought preparations and attack buffs were added for a reason. IE, slow attack speed, average armour and mediocre mana pool/regen.

User Name · Sep 23, 2005, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by KallDrexx

Because the real idea here is that Interrupt rangers do more damage then regular rangers and therefore it's a single class balance issue. Interrupts shouldn't do as much damage as damage rangers because the interrupt capabiltiy should have a downside to it, not doing enough damage. You can't boost non-interrupt skills cause that could make rangers too overpowered.

Punishing should do more dmg...it's an elite and you should get a bonus for using it. The problem is savage shot got a major buff in the last update. It's practically godly now and even more useful than most ranger elites. That coupled with the fact that you can link the three interupts together and that interupts cancel preps instead of ignoring them is the inbalance issue. You can do high DPS because you don't have to wait for skills to recharge and you aren't spending much energy(I think someone factored it out to be 7 energy for all 3 attacks). Savage Shot needs to be 'fixed' somewhere in between where it was pre-update and where it is now after the update and the skills need to ignore the preperation instead of canceling it. I know shinsei has already said soemthing much like this...but I fear that people are missing his point(even though he's made it painfully obvious)...hopefully this makes an attempt to reiterate.

Tactical: if that's the way ArenaNet intended it to be they should have removed every other ranger skill in the game...as you'd be a fool to use anything other than Punishing + Savage + Distracting + Preperation..you're doing the most DPS a ranger can do in the least amount of time AND interupting almost all actions..

Shinsei · Sep 23, 2005, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions

So where does ArenaNet state that the +dmg with interrupt capabilities isn't what they intended upon design of the ranger class?

I thought preparations and attack buffs were added for a reason. IE, slow attack speed, average armour and mediocre mana pool/regen.

Does it really make no sense to you whatsoever that a ranger devoted to interrupting and attempting to shut down should do less damage than a ranger devoted to dishing out high damage? If not, please stop talking now and let the real discussion continue.

MSecorsky · Sep 23, 2005, 02:56 PM // 14:56

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Originally Posted by Shinsei

Does it really make no sense to you whatsoever that a ranger devoted to interrupting and attempting to shut down should do less damage than a ranger devoted to dish out high damage? If not, please stop talking now and let the real discussion continue.

Not if you think about it a moment. Rangers dong interrupts are hitting someone with an arrow and doing enough damage to completely disrupt their concentration in attempting to cast a spell. This is common sense. Interrupts are adding that extra oomph to do more of a job than your basic arrow.

KallDrexx · Sep 23, 2005, 02:58 PM // 14:58

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Originally Posted by User Name

Punishing should do more dmg...it's an elite and you should get a bonus for using it.

Not disagreeing with that. But as a WHOLE an interruption build shouldn't do as much damage or more then a high damage build.

Shinsei · Sep 23, 2005, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Not if you think about it a moment. Rangers dong interrupts are hitting someone with an arrow and doing enough damage to completely disrupt their concentration in attempting to cast a spell. This is common sense. Interrupts are adding that extra oomph to do more of a job than your basic arrow.

If your target is casting nothing to interrupt, the punishing - savage - disrupting combo still does more damage than your typical dmg ranger build, and this is all due to the time it takes to combo these 3 and the fact that they trigger your preperation.

KallDrexx · Sep 23, 2005, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Not if you think about it a moment. Rangers dong interrupts are hitting someone with an arrow and doing enough damage to completely disrupt their concentration in attempting to cast a spell. This is common sense. Interrupts are adding that extra oomph to do more of a job than your basic arrow.

Dont' bring reality into this. Otherwise anytime you would hit someone with anything they would be interrupted and this game would be as retarded for casters as DAOC is. GW is not real life.